Woke And Broke: Politicizing Economic Activity

READER COMMENTS ON

"Breathtaking, Terrifying Video Coverage of 'May Day Melee' in Los Angeles"

(105 Responses so far...)

COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... MICK said on 5/2/2007 @ 5:44 pm PT...

40 millimeter rubber batons do a "heck of a job" don't ya thunk?

mick


COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... G-Dawg said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:04 pm PT...

These were ILLEGALS. We should of brought in the military and kicked the shit out of those ILLEGALS and shipped their asses back to MEXICO.

If we did that then the word would get out down there in Mexico that they will get their ass kicked by our military/police and shipped back.

I didn't use to be racist twords Mexicans, but now I am. Fuck em. They don't belong in our country, they are nothing but a bunch of slimy dirty scumbags.


COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:12 pm PT...

NBC led with this story, with Brian Williams. I'm not sure what ABC & CBS did with it, but it wasn't one of their top stories.

Ironically, a tape of the Kent St. shootings, where our own military shot American college students, surfaced today, and beyond a doubt the shooting was calculated and premeditated. For 37 years, our govt was telling us tall tales, that "someone panicked and started shooting", etc...etc... Well, this tape clearly plays the military leaders giving the orders to shoot, ready, aim, fire...so that was BULLSHIT all these years, like we all suspected anyway.


COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:13 pm PT...

G-DAWG: These were PEOPLE, not aliens. I'm NOT for shooting people, sounds like YOU are...I don't care what country they're from! What would Jesus do?


COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:15 pm PT...

(that was me) {check :-P --99}

...and not "Republican" Jesus, I mean the REAL Jesus.


COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Off the Grid said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:41 pm PT...

2 big dans...I'm confused

Firing on unarmed citizens(or people in general) is wrong. I guess that's the state of things.


COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... JUDGE OF JUDGES said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:48 pm PT...

... G-Dawg said on 5/2/2007 @ 3:51 pm PT...

Why do libturds hate the police and our military?

This is why I love to see the police just beat down liberal protesters. Remember the GOP convention in NYC ... when the libturds got arrested and beat up.

lmao....

lol...

... G-Dawg said on 5/2/2007 @ 4:12 pm PT...

If I was a Cop I would be the shit out of every liberal I arrested. This is what liberals deserve for hating our police and military.

Nothing would be more satisfying that smacking down a liberal with a billy-club.

Then when I took them to jail, I would put them in a cell with the biggest baddest dude.


COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Off the Grid said on 5/2/2007 @ 7:59 pm PT...

The Great Wall of Segregation...


COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... G-Dawg said on 5/2/2007 @ 8:12 pm PT...

{Ed Note: Obnoxious racist comment, encouragement of violence deleted. You've already been warned once, G-Dawg. Now your comments will be moderated before posting. If you can't control yourself, you'll be banned. Incredible that you're unable to act like anything but a 3-year old whose never had a parent explain the difference between right and wrong. --- BF}


COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... leftisbest said on 5/2/2007 @ 8:53 pm PT...

Brad - Leave this on top for at least 24 hours - ok?

I believe G-DAWG has crossed the line in advocating violence, and may even be breaking the law with the incindiary statements he is making. Please either ban him or everybody totally ignore the moron. He'll get tired and go blow his bullshit somewhere else.

That said, F - U - C - K !!! This is the most terrifying video BECAUSE any one of us could have been there. It was a peaceful demonstration attended by all ethnic groups - legal - illegal - whatever - human beings peacefully making a point. This is the wake-up video of the decade. One guy had it absolutely right - this has now (not might or could, but) HAS NOW become a police state. 2007 HAS to be the year we decide to do nothing and go to Fascism or take action and reclaim Democracy. 2008 will be TOO LATE. The elections may be cancelled due to "security concerns".

If this Fascist activity is allowed to go on in the second largest city in the U.S., think how easy it would be to take place in YOUR home town? And with Habeas Corpus (as in "have your body") suspended, you won't even be charged with a crime, you will be just shuffled off to an "undisclosed location", never to be heard from (and certainly never SEEN) again. Then they can pretty much do whatever they want with you - or your mom/dad, or your wife/husband or son/daughter or how about your grandkids. Maybe even your grandmother - because you see- once it starts - NO ONE is immune - no one is exempt. You look the wrong way, say the wrong thing, think the wrong thought - it's off to the gulag with you.

So, it couldn't happen here - eh? Well it just did, and once we allow one, then there are two, then four, then eight, well, you get the idea. You know how we hear that 100 people were killed in Iraq today, or 47 injured, etc.? What makes you think it will be limited to Iraq when the police become puppets of a dictator. And I wonder just who that could be?

Enough, I hope every person reading this gets it and gets in very very deep inside your gut, because the first rounds have been fired. What happens next is anybody's guess.


COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... JStraight said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:07 pm PT...

None of the other videos I've seen about this incident show as clearly as this one does the menacing relentlessness of the police.

What is even more sickening and wasn't shown in any of the other national news videos of this event, was that the police extended their overboard actions to areas outside of the park! Who gave the order for them to go block by block and force everyone (not just the protesters) to clear the streets? DANG!

Last week, while protesting Cheney's visit to BYU in Provo, Utah with other "Veterans against the Iraqi War", I was approached by a videographer who asked me, among other things, if I thought we were in a police state. Believing that the U.S. is definitely turning into a fascist nation, but not sure whether we had headed so far down that road that we could be called a police state, I answered that he'd have to speak to "others more knowledgeable than I about that issue."

I would answer differently now.


COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... ewastud said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:08 pm PT...

This unprovoked and illegal attack is not surprising. From what I have read, the LAPD seems to be a cauldron of corruption and spook plants (moles). Gary Webb's excellent book Dark Alliance also details some of the corruption which has been rife in the LAPD, but it is well documented elsewhere, too.

A couple of strong suspects in this LAPD corruption and black bag operations in the past, in my view, are Darryl Gates (the former police chief during the infamous Rodney King police brutality beating, also a detective who investigated the RFK assassination and undoubtedly involved in the subsequent cover-up of what really happened) and racist Mark Fuhrman of the OJ trial fame who "discovered" the bloody glove on OJ's lawn. Fuhrman has gone on to write a book of disinformation about the JFK assassination, like any good covert CIA/spook operative.


COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Dylan Rohde said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:22 pm PT...

After this event, I think you will like our new video. It's an anti-war/anti-bush music. Please, please watch this.

http://vids.myspace.com/...l&videoid=2025463806


COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:26 pm PT...

G-Dawg said:

These were ILLEGALS.

Were they, G-Dawg? And how would you know that exactly? Did they send you their papers out there in Ohio?

Because you've ignored previous warnings about your obnoxious racist comments, you're now set on "moderate" and soon to be banned all together if you're unable to act like a decent human being.

It's quite telling that you're unable to express your point without hatred and appalling rhetoric.


COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... John Dean said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:44 pm PT...

Brad, are my eyes deceiving me?

I swear, when the helicopter flies around in the early part of the video, I see flashes of light from gunfire coming from it.

Does anyone else see this?

John


COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... newjesustimes said on 5/2/2007 @ 10:48 pm PT...

Right to peaceably assemble used to be Constitutionally guaranteed.

looks like the 'Miami model' to me. If you're not familiar I suggest you Google it.


COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/2/2007 @ 11:16 pm PT...

Or I have a bunch of links about it here.


COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 5/3/2007 @ 6:15 am PT...

There were women and children there, for Christ's sake! G-DAWG: How can you be like that???


COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 5/3/2007 @ 6:41 am PT...

Just like during ray gun's administration the stage is set with their divisive, violence condoning issue - abortion was it then and immigration is it now. The silent majority must speak out now against what anybody of real faith and or reason knows; they are very close to absolute power absolutely corrupted.

This is exactly why our founding fathers created the impeachment process!


COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 5/3/2007 @ 6:55 am PT...

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) definition of domestic terrorism:

"Domestic terrorism refers to activities that involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any state; appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and, occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."

Maybe the FBI can clean up the LAPD?

Have they ever sworn an oath? (I don't know that's why I am asking) I Know the Military has, because I have.


COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Thomas Paine Was A Quaker said on 5/3/2007 @ 7:25 am PT...

Dear G-Dawg:

From one Love-monger to another, what in god's name is the reason for such spittle spraying vitriol?

Do you really hate people who don't follow your point of view that much?

Sounds like you've gone off your neuroleptic meds.

So why should we shoot people for exercising their First Amendment rights? What's your rationale?

The main thrust of your argument seems to be that "they" are just "illegals."

So blam-blam-blam! And wash the blood down the culvert with a fire hose.

Did you notice that a lot of the people there were little kids? F-'em right? Blam!

Regardless, the fact remains that I'm sure the majority of people in MacArthur Park weren't so-called "illegal." Otherwise wouldn't have ICE been involved?

So as this was not a federal, or state action, but one prompted by city authorities, do you really want to criminalize the "right of peaceful assembly" at the local level too.

Do you want "free speech zones" on very block like 7-11s, so the "peace officers" can get better aim on such "undesirables?"

Next, I'm sure you wouldn't have a thing to say about the Second Amendment if those guys with the black Ninja gear and plastic face shields came to your house to take your guns? Now would ya?

Also, if are you suggesting that the police should kill protesters with live ammo, isn't that a terroristic threat on your part?

And what if they did kill some innocent people, would that make you liable in the co-mission of a murder?

Would you be liable as well for making incendiary comments that were used to incite an illegal action?

Hmmm...

Check your state statutes! Read the fine print of Patriot Act II!

For that matter, find out the limits of YOUR First Amendment protections.

For if the shoe were on the other foot, and say you wanted to protest against the "illegals" protesting, you wouldn't want to get shot now would you?

Even though that might free you from your Operantly Conditioned, corps-media, narcoleptic petulance...

So remember, we'll keep the light on for ya @ GITMO there bub.

Also, there's plenty of room at those nice new FEMA facilities thanks to KBR.

Bon Voyage!


COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... gtash said on 5/3/2007 @ 9:08 am PT...

I do not watch network or cable, so I do not know how this was covered. Internet coverage was clear enough in that the majority called it a "peaceful" demonstration. NPR hyped the "lighter than expected turnout" and also labelled it peaceful. Late in the day (eastern time circa 3pm-4pm)) , the police action was reported by a host of substantially west coast blogs as nearly as I could tell.

I am really surprised by the general disregard shown for the people at this demonstration by the press. I cannot fathom what threat they posed in the park. Even if the allotted time expired for the demonstration, what justified forcing them out? Was it to make room for ordinary park activities by other citizens? (Somehow I don't think so.) Who is asking questions in Los Angeles of their public officials?


COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... neildeal said on 5/3/2007 @ 9:18 am PT...

This is just like their treatment of that college student just recently. They tasered the guy repeatedly AFTER he was put in handcuffs. There were at least 3 cops their.

They could have easily carried the guy out of there, (that is if he even did anything wrong). I saw the cell phone video. The guy's screams were terrifying.

What the hell is wrong with LAPD cops?? They should fire them all and start over. Is anyone hear a police officer? What the hell is the deal with these psychos?


COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... neildeal said on 5/3/2007 @ 9:20 am PT...

oops I meant, is anyone HERE a police officer?


COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Onyx said on 5/3/2007 @ 10:10 am PT...

The microwave active denial system developed by the Pentagon is "tested" and ready for use. Everyone should learn how to make retorefectors to send the beam back to its source.


COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 5/3/2007 @ 10:41 am PT...

Thomas Paine Was A Quaker : Did you see that clip of Rorbacker, saying that it's worth it to kill a few innocents, if it leads to getting more terrorists? That's the GOP mentality. I'll try to find that clip later.

That's what "Republican" Jesus would do........


COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 5/3/2007 @ 10:51 am PT...

This is the Republican Party. THIS is why I believe they're stealing elections with e-vote machines. There's a bunch of backward hicks in the GOP running our country, and they weren't legitimately voted in...

Who in their right mind would actually elect these backwards people??? They are NOT what our country is all about!

http://thinkprogress.org.../rohrabacher-terrorists/


COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Reason said on 5/3/2007 @ 1:25 pm PT...

"Firing on unarmed citizens(or people in general) is wrong. I guess that's the state of things"

If they were in fact citizens I'd be alarmed. Undocumented still means illegal in my book.


COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... brantl said on 5/3/2007 @ 1:27 pm PT...

..."didn't use to be racist twords Mexicans, but now I am. Fuck em. They don't belong in our country, they are nothing but a bunch of slimy dirty scumbags. -G-DAWG" Actually, yes you did, G-DAWG, it's obvious.


COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 5/3/2007 @ 2:27 pm PT...

Blogs and things are monitored by Cyveillance Inc., which probably includes Bradblog!

They know who is going to be at a demonstration, if that info is disclosed before the demo online.

Then they send in the troops to find them, and hurt them, or kill them.

Use disinformation (don't give hard previews of places of appearance you are going to be) when you have to ... in terms of where you will physically be ... but always speak the truth.

So who were the targets of the LAPD on this one and how did they know ... and did they get them?

Dig it?


COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... marcG said on 5/3/2007 @ 6:22 pm PT...

Illegals is the 21st century version of 'nigger'. That is what I hear when the term is thrown at undocumented families. Just like nigger was (and still is, although less overtly) the soundtrack to the murder and oppression of black folks, 'illegals' is the political theatrical score for the police and minutemen murder and political oppression of undocumented families from the South.

It's a shame that the so-called US progressive movement isn't involved with what is obviously the true front of progressivism in the United States in the 21st century. The struggle for human rights led by immigrants.

As in the 60s, so many so-called political people stood on the sidelines or contented themselves with reading about how King and activist blacks fought for a more free USA, the progressive movement of today is for the most part, only watching as the real progressive movement, mostly latinos, fight for further realization of the USA some say exists right now and others say used to exist but certainly that we all want.

Si Se Puede!


COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Nunyabiz said on 5/3/2007 @ 7:10 pm PT...

The only violence I would advocate in this case is I wish these innocent people would have come out in a force of about 500,000 and beat the living crap out of these pathetic Police State neofascist cops.

"We the People" in this country need to start fighting back. It is really about the only option left at this point.


COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... cadaverdog said on 5/3/2007 @ 8:26 pm PT...

Oooow. I just luhhhv Jonathan in his oh-so-hip coveralls and hairy chest. And what air-u-dite correspondence. "Fuck here they come!" Amazing use of the English language. Murrow must be green with envy. If he were still alive, that is. Notice how well he communicates with his subjects: "What'd she say?" Faboulous. Interject yourself in a Latino demonstration, and then ask what the fuck they are talking about. Brilliant. Let's see lots more from him.

Then later, look for the real media heroes, like Christina Gonzalez, who will be tearing the LAPD a new one before all this is finished. Of course, she is MSM, so we'll probably ignore her.

So Jonathan Mann is the new journalism? Pathetic.


COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... Darwin said on 5/3/2007 @ 10:39 pm PT...

Let's see - tens of millions of Mexicans (etc.) illegally invading our country. And Jewish media telling us that the invaders are the victims? Thank goodness the White race is waking up to this scam.


COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... JUDGE OF JUDGES said on 5/3/2007 @ 11:16 pm PT...

G-Dawg reminds me of this other commenter E-Coli . . .


COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Myst said on 5/3/2007 @ 11:19 pm PT...

Interesting since I have cable that the first I heard of this is on the net. Watching this video coverage was truly horrifying for several reasons.

One reason is --- as someone else pointed out, this could have been anyone, you and me, not just peaceful demonstrators at an immigration rally. I rather doubt that all were 'illegals'.

Another reason is --- whatever happened to the police who would simply 'be seen' at a peaceful demonstration, walking around or riding on horseback? Their presence usually was all it took to insure a rally stayed peaceful. Having the police there in full riot gear shooting rubber bullets among peaceful demonstrators sure sounds to me like this rally was used as an excuse for the coming 'police state' to make themselves known.

Another thing --- This could have happened anywhere in the U.S. and likely will happen in other places. I believe that those who are blaming the LAPD for suddenly going postal need to realize that the coming 'police state' is just starting with them. I honestly don't think it's going to be too long before we see this kind of thing going on even in our smallest cities nationwide.

Wonder if Americans will wake up by then?


COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Larry Bergan said on 5/3/2007 @ 11:52 pm PT...

Everything is going just as planned. Everybody is fighting everybody. The police aren't the ones who caused this. They are just pawns in the game along with the rest of us serfs. This is what happens when huge groups of people are disenfranchised. That's what this blog is all about.


COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Kimmer said on 5/4/2007 @ 4:16 am PT...

Where was that worthless piece of sh#t organizational arm called "I.C.E." of the even more worthless piece of sh*t organization known as Homeland Security whose job it is to protect our borders and deport illegal foreign invaders? They could have picked them off like cherries from a tree. Protecting our border doesn't seem to be high on its list of priorities despite all the blustering by our "decider" about fighting the "turrists" and "turrism". Any "terrorist" could just walk across our southern border along with the fact that the Mexican military has been spotted at least 200 miles inside American territory several times. WIDE OPEN. COME ON IN!! What a JOKE.


COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... kungfublood said on 5/4/2007 @ 7:14 am PT...

If the cops start demonstrating that they are racist bigots from the dregs of American society it is time to dart into the street out into traffic by the hundreds or thousands and stay in traffic until you get away from the terrorists.


COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Burke said on 5/4/2007 @ 8:16 am PT...

What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand??? What about the stuff you did not see? Like the cop being knocked his bike? or the rocks and other stuff trowen at the cops? You all need to rat out the dumb ass's that cover there face and start the shit!!!!


COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Tanto said on 5/4/2007 @ 8:46 am PT...

The issue of immigration is an emotionally-charged one, no doubt. And this video is pretty emotional, too. BUT, please watch it again carefully before totally freaking out...

Our immigration system is worn and broken. I support reform – offering anyone who wants to live peacefully in the U.S. the chance to become a citizen; our diversity makes us richer in many ways. The “Right” is spreading divisiveness and muddying the water while the “Left” is reacting in typical knee-jerk fashion.

What I see in this video: The (oppressive, fascist, etc.) representatives of the (overbearing, intrusive, etc.) State are (mercilessly, heavy-handedly) clearing the streets of (underrepresented, downtrodden) people exercising their right to peaceably assemble by using (excessive, brutal) force.

What I also see: The (harried, nervous) representatives of the State are (trying to maintain order/ traffic flow by) clearing the streets of (semi-rowdy) people exercising their right to peaceably assemble (who may or may not be trespassing, disrupting businesses, etc.) by using (non-lethal) force.

As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

What I DON’T see:

Anyone being arrested, beaten, accosted, lying wounded in the street, etc.

Any police officer acting like a “brutal pig.”

Any evidence of tear gas.

Any wounded women or children .

Any spectator acting disorderly, causing any problems, forcibly resisting police, etc. Any reason that this demonstration needed to be broken up (but I’d like to know the back story: Where and when was it? How many people were there? What was the “official” reason for breaking it up?)

Free speech and the right to assemble need to be protected and encouraged. So does a measure of order, especially in densely-populated areas.

Yes, the camera can’t be EVERYWHERE, and yes, rubber bullets and beanbag loads ARE painful, but all the volatile narration aside, this video appears to show the police doing their job.

Stay awake. Stay aware. Stay informed.

Seek Truth. Seek balance.


COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... texaslady said on 5/4/2007 @ 8:51 am PT...

I can't condone brutality on innocent people. I do know that Police in every city are getting mixed signals. Do your job, but if you do you might end up in jail. Police/Border Agents aren't allowed to touch the connected "real" criminals. So they vent on those they can touch. Fair? Humane? Not a bit.

But I wonder how many could walk in their shoes every day and not become like those you are arresting.


COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... E. Smith said on 5/4/2007 @ 9:45 am PT...

What blows my mind is that the racists here see immigrants as such a huge threat. WTF are you so scared of? Just because somebody's skin color isn't the same as yours doesn't mean you have to piss your pants and weep like a little girlie for the BHFGRDS (pick your favorite alphabet soup acronym) to come out with tanks and guns for you to hide behind.

America was FOUNDED and BUILT by immigrants, you dolts.

I'm with Nunyabiz. Time for We the People to start acting like we've got spines and take our country back.

"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize. But get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me."

--Muhammad Ali

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

--T. Jefferson

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

--Samuel Adams

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.

--Martin Luther King Jr.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

--Martin Luther King Jr.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

--Edmund Burke

As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.

--Justice William O. Douglas


COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... Jon62 said on 5/4/2007 @ 9:51 am PT...

I once believed in a world living in peace and harmony was achievable, I was a hippie and me and my friends in California protested against The one world GOV and the world bank in the 90's. Now most of my friends have gone deep into Socialism and Marxism. The problems we have now are the same we have been dealing with since shortly after the creation of the Federal reserve. You see there were a group of people who want to control the entire world, and their idea of control is what you seen on this video. Illegal immigration, the trade agreements NAFTA, CAFTA was all a well played out plan, the Globalist elite's have many mechanisms to acieve their goals. One goal was to drive Central and south americans from their home countries to the U.S. You see if you have one country on the planet that is any kind of a threat to the One World Gov, than the U.S. is it because the foundation of this country and our constitution was written to stop these very people, it's the same enemy, just a different time. U.S. citizens still have the right to bare arms and therefore are very difficult to overthrough. The enemy is is deeply entrench within our Federal Gov. Those who control are exploiting central and south americans, forcing them to flee to the U.S. or stay home and starve. This creates a major problem for U.S. citizens because they lose their job that paid $20 to $30 an hour as a carpenter to someone coming here from the south, this creates an effect here that has happened down south, the destgruction of an economy that can destroy the economy of the world. You see, they have devised a plan, to destroy the worlds last hope of freedom and liberty, of an economy that will allow people who come here and become citizens, an opportunity at a dream not slavery. The U.S. is like a cow, we can milk it or we can kill it. But know this, even though we have had criminals for leaders who have done terrible crimes to other countries who should as individuals be punished, they do so against the will of the people. They know that unleashing the worlds hunger (Illegal immigration they created with NAFTA,CAFTA) upon the U.S. as they have, that those who come are slaughtering the cow and don't know it. What they are coming for is being destroyed faster because of it, it's a race to the bottom and untill we all learn to figure out that the globalist elite have us pented against each other is even that much better. They are intentionally Bulkinizing the U.S. so we are all seperated in small ethnic anclaves and easily overthrown. A country devided is a country soon to be history and untill we see ourself's as a people united, not devided, our demise may well soon come. You think what you saw on the video was bad, when they take our guns away million's will be shot with real bullets, and this video will be a video remembered as childs play!!! Also Socialism and Marxism, are the Globalist Elite's tools, remember the pide pipper, how about a piece of cheese on the mouse trap!!!! Nothing is for free,and this world is an evil place, lambs can't sleep with lions like in heaven, and a one world living in peace and harmony is a fantasy that will never happen, because in this world something has to die for something to eat!


COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... texaslady said on 5/4/2007 @ 11:15 am PT...

E. Smith - immigrants yes, illegals no, do you live in a city where illegals are swamping your healthcare, hospitals are having to close because of supplying care that cannot be paid for. Are your schools insisting that teachers learn Spanish to accomodate these children?

Try living on a border town with illegal children walking across to the schools. Good idea except the schools can't count illegals and thereby do not get government funding to pay for their education. Towns are struggling.

Have you considered the burden on our Social Security system if 20,000 illegals are given amenesty without having paid in for 40 years?

Do you know what Mexico does to illegals? The first offense is deportation the second offense is jail for as long as the government deems it. Illegals are not welcomed in any way or shape, unless they have alot of money.

Mexican citizens, need to demand that their own country stand up and supply good paying jobs, benefits for them instead of demanding that America provide rights to those who did not enter the legal door.

I welcome immigrants coming through the legal door, as my dad did in 1922. Legal is the main word.


COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/4/2007 @ 1:14 pm PT...

I started reading the posts in this thread last night and had to click off. I found most of the posts repugnant. Many people have some real anger management issues. A credible psychologist would be employed for years with some of you and your issues.

I have read many posts on various message boards about the immigration issue, but this thread is something else!

It's as if the Ku Klux Klan cranked up their phone banks and urged their membership to get online and go over to BradBlog and spew their hatred and bile on the thread titled "Breathtaking, Terrifying Video Coverage of 'May Day Melee' in Los Angeles."

And in true Klan style, the members posting here did their best to put down the "illegal aliens" (and when that's spoken the racists make it sound as nasty as possible) and put down the "Mexicans" (make them sound like the new "niggers" of today and are non-human beings).

Between the racist programming instilled in people by their parents or guardians along with the racism programmed into unthinking people on a daily basis by talk show hosts, it's something else.

If it's not the Klan who's responsible for this bile on here and if most people on here **CLAIM** to be progressives, I would want nothing to do with most of you. People can label themself anything whether it's really true or not. I have a Repug relative who claims to be "fiscally conservative and socially liberal." Well, I've never seen the socially liberal part.

The fact is other than the Native American we are a nation of immigrants. We are all immigrants and the nation was built by immigrants. When people anywhere in the world need to eat and feed their family they will do whatever it takes to do that, whether it's legal or not. And you would too if you were in their (the undocumented workers) position.

I may have missed it but I don't see anyone on here complaining about the employers who hire undocumented workers and that they should be jailed and get stiff penalties. The racism and bile has been entirely directed at the workers who are undocumented. That's so typical. Dump on the worker. Not on the employer.

Undocumented workers are human beings just like you and me. Many here have been ragging about the "Mexicans" because you want to make yourself feel superior and in order to accomplish that you can only do so by putting others (such as the Latinos) down. If one were truly secure with oneself one wouldn't need to do that.

How many of those who protested were documented and how many were undocumented? Who know?! Many documented workers protested in solidarity with the undocumented workers. And there are many undocumented workers in this nation who are not Latino, it's just that the Latinos have the spine to protest in large numbers and I fully support them.

The Los Angeles Police Department cops were in the wrong. They have an increasing record of police brutality. Even Telemundo (one of the Latino networks) television employees were injured by the cops.

I thank Jonathan for reporting on the immmigration protest.

I'm in San Francisco and our Mayor Newsom the other day declared San Francisco a sanctuary for undocumented workers. Right on, Mayor Newsom. He said that no City official will assist ICE (you know, the ICE terrorists) nor any other federal "official" will the City assist (who wants to terrorise undocumented workers in my City). Thank you Mayor Newsom.


COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... Nome said on 5/4/2007 @ 1:27 pm PT...

This stuff is so sickening. To see cops set on people like that?!?! On children?!?!


COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... Carlos said on 5/4/2007 @ 1:44 pm PT...

Reply to G dawg- You and other ignorant people like you only promote hatred and that does nothing good for society. Fact of tha matter, unless your an 100% American Indian you have ancestors somewhere down the line that came from somewhere else. Did you know the Aztec Indians originally came frome Arizona and New Mexico (Aztlan). It is kind of like karma in a way. Their land was taken and now their coming back in full force. Almost all Mexican immigrants are hard working, family oriented people. All races have gangs, drug dealers and bad people. It is not right to ever attack elderly, women or children. By chance you were born in America and not in a 3rd world country and you have no clue what they go through. The Government also knows that they are working with "bad" social security #'s but still takes it's taxes out of their checks. Americas is built on the labor of immigrants and stolen land. I am hoping you get more educated on History and stop reposting ignorant comments. Long Live the Human Race.


COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/4/2007 @ 2:50 pm PT...

It does not take a rocket scientist to know that most of the crowd was made up of illegal aliens and thus they have no rights to be here or to protest. Immigrants - the legal kind - do not need to protest for rights because they have EARNED their rights by coming here legally. So this pile of crap of people who entered our country illegally don't like when they encounter policia enforcing our laws? Sure they were intimidating but they needed to be. They announced their intentions clearly and this group chose to ignore the warning and tried to face down the police. Happily, I think the time of illegal aliens being unafraid is coming to an end. If you don't like how you are being treated as an illegal alien criminal in our country why don't you GO HOME and try protesting in the streets of Mexico and Guatemala or whatever country you have fled to come here and suck money off the American taxpayers.

And yes I think we are entering a police state and it will hurt EVERYONE. This is because our Federal government has been asleep at the wheel and allowed MILLIONS of illegal aliens to come here and get comfortable and now we are on the verge of a Civil War. Thanks so much GW Bush for ruining this country.


COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/4/2007 @ 2:54 pm PT...

To Carlos - we paid good money for our Southwest after we kicked Mexico's ass - it is called the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo and guess what - you're not getting it back. SOME Mexicans became Americans after that treaty and you will notice I did not say Mexican-American. The Mexicans who chose to stay on this side of the border were smart. The latecomers have no right to be here by getting smuggled across the border so just get over that sense of righteousness you all have that you are taking something back. Americans are gonna kick your asses all he way back to whatever country or planet you came from if you don't have the decency to come here legally. We let in more immigrants legally than all the countries in the world COMBINED so whining about not letting enough immigrants in just falls on my deaf ears.


COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... trevjr said on 5/4/2007 @ 3:36 pm PT...

Amazing video. The police turn a peaceful gathering into people running for their lives. Yes those rubber bullets can kill if they hit you in the right place. Even Lou Dobbs was amazed at the police although he said the trouble was caused by anarchists.

What troubles me is that some of the commenters are saying 'illegals' like they are less than human.

LAPD has been labeled by a federal judge as a out of control bunch of thugs. They beat up a bunch of journalists that have video and they will wind up paying a bunch of money.


COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/4/2007 @ 4:00 pm PT...

Zorro,

I swear, if I didn't know any better, I would have guessed from the stuff you wrote that you are a Repug. What you wrote is the same repugnant nationalistic John Wayne type big bully tough-guy drivel I read from gas-bag Repugs and unfortunately some Faux Liberals as of late.

Do you own a television? If so, why don't you turn on your television and watch the Latino network Univision (which is NOT pronounced "you-nee-vision," by the way) and their newscasts or their programme "Primer Impacto" for example, and you would see Latinos protesting by the thousands and thousands in Mexico and elsewhere in the world regularly. On Univision, I see more huge protests in Latin nations than I ever see here in the States. But you need to watch something other than the corporate media in this country in order to see what I'm talking about.

And how would you like it if you were in another country and people referred to you in a snide nasty way as an "illegal alien," (with their nose turned up when they say it?) as if you are not even a human being? Do you have the wherewithal to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a moment to think how you would feel being referred to like that?

If we are on the verge of a civil war it's because of people like you and your venom. Get some professional help.


COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... Mar said on 5/4/2007 @ 4:03 pm PT...

I'm with Zorro, # 49 & #50

Well said, Zorro.

So what part of illegal don't these people understand. They are in your country ILLEGALLY....so how they feel that they are entitled to demonstrate for 'their rights' is totally beyond my comprehension.

I live in Canada and have been here since 1965. I came from England and had to go through the system.......apply, fill in the forms and wait for the verdict. That should be the criteria for anyone applying to move to another country.

But alas, that doesn't apply to your country...!!

Your borders are wide open....looks like anyone can enter and establish residence if they chose to do so.

We here in Canada also have guest worker programs where Mexicans come here for a few months of the year to work in the farming community, picking apples etc...but they always go back home after their contract expires and most of them come back again in the year following. Seems like your government doesn't give a damn who comes across your border anymore.

Until you secure your borders, and it doesn't look like the Bush government is interested in doing that, then your illegal alien problem will continue to grow.

I still have a problem with how those two border agents were treated for doing their jobs...they're still in prison and Bush doesn't give a damn. Don't you think that it's about time you took to the streets to protest something really relevant.....

IMPEACHMENT.......

ASAP...!!!!!!!

This President and his henchmen are the worst bunch EVER...!! Time to say bye to their tyranny.....

ITMFA

It's way past the time to take back your country, and that includes the media. It's about time the news reflected what is really happening and not what the media conglomorates feel that you should be hearing...!!!

And one more thing.....isn't it about time that 911 was re-investigated. It's way overdue for the real culprits of THAT massacre to pay the price.


COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... LAZLO said on 5/4/2007 @ 4:22 pm PT...

These were ILLEGALS. We should of brought in the military and kicked the shit out of those ILLEGALS and shipped their asses back to MEXICO.

If we did that then the word would get out down there in Mexico that they will get their ass kicked by our military/police and shipped back.

I didn't use to be racist twords Mexicans, but now I am. Fuck em. They don't belong in our country, they are nothing but a bunch of slimy dirty scumbags.

YOU FUCKING ROBBED THE AMERICAN NATIVES OF THEIR COUNTRY SO DON'T GET ALL SENSITIVE ABOUT A FEW THOUSAND IMMIGRANTS LIVING IN YOUR GOD FORSAKEN SHIT-HOLE OF A COUNTRY


COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... Mar said on 5/4/2007 @ 4:30 pm PT...

And one more thing that's on my mind. Way back then around the seventies and eighties, after travelling in your country mostly around the western states, Colorado, Arizona, Utah and Texas, I was gung-ho about moving there eventually........but that was then....now is a different story.

The 'chimp' government has put paid to my desires. So, until he's gone from office, I won't even consider it.......he's a blight on your country, he's a liar and had done irreprable damage to your country.

Thanks to him, you have lost creditablitly with most of the world........geeeeeeze, do something......take back your country, it's way overdue....!!!!


COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/4/2007 @ 5:01 pm PT...

May I remind people that looking back in history, countries that act like the U.S. often are conquered by other countries.

When this happens to the U.S. and all you anti-undocumented immigrant people decide to shoot off to another country to find work to feed what left of your families, how are you going to feel when the people in the other countries start calling you an "illegal alien" and put you in prison camps?

Just something to think about.

What goes around often does come around.


COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... atlas spanked said on 5/4/2007 @ 5:36 pm PT...

Huh, it seems as if everyone here forgets that approximately 9 protesters - and 12 police - were injured, and that the cops 'fired on' protesters using non-lethal means. It's not like the Czars' troops massacreing winter-starved Russians.

The 'citizen journalist's' footage is impressive, but the narration is pure bullshit.

I've lived in Mexico, Peru, and Ecuador. I speak Spanish. Hell, I've even happily dated Latinas. I have empathy for a lot of Mexican and other hispanics who are trapped in a dysfuncitonal society by a grossly corrupt (Spanish, not American) oligarchy. I could care less what color someone is. (Remember there are aspiring immigrants from Africa, Asia and Europe too, so you don't automatically get to butt to the head of the immigration line just because you're Mexican.)

But I have absolutely no patience for illegal immigrant 'rights' protesters - and that's what this is really about, not 'immigrant's rights.' America already has some of the world's most liberal legal immigration quotas. On that score, this country has nothing to feel guilty about.

And here's a news flash for Latino fools drunk on the idea of Aztlan, that supposed Mexican homeland that existed, so we hear, in the SW U.S. until anglos arrived and ruined Latino's long-lost paradise (slavery, intertribal warfare and wholesale human sacrifice not withstanding).

Azlan is an Aztec creation myth, not history. Aztec legend said they came from a hole in the ground, similar to the Hopi Sipapu, and migrated south to modern-day Mexico City, where the eagle dropped the snake and, poof, they created their capitol. Archeologists (as opposed to Latino Studies 'professors' from U.Cal @ Riverside) claim that the Aztec did indeed migrate down from the north...the northern Sierra Madre of present-day Mexico.

So, no, the U.S. is not some stolen paradise. And you, the descendants of Conquistadors, don't get to automatically claim native American status just because it's convenient. Your society fucked up Mexico and most of South America, with very little 'help' from the U.S.

Mexico has a lot of friendly people and nice places, but it's also a cesspool of cruelty, ignorance, garbage, pollution, and rampant government and police corruption - and it was that way long before NAFTA.

So, 'Lo siento amigos.' You don't just get to stroll across the border and parasitize off a functional economy, importing all your dysfunctional cultural norms (like gross sexism, pollution, medieval Catholicism, and a cultural attitude that laughs at any and all regulation, including immigration formalities).

And don't call Americans racists just for pointing that out. Best be looking in a mirror and curing your own society first. Mexico, central and south America are great places to visit, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there for any length of time, and I sure as hell don't want it all moving here.

In the end, I'm in favor of limited amnesty and paths to citizenship for a moderate number of people. But not everyone who wants, because one of the great strengths in this country is that we're not, currently, grossly overpopulated. And amnesty shouldn't even be considered until our borders, and coastlines, are controlled.


COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... kelly said on 5/4/2007 @ 5:45 pm PT...

I'm astonished by a few comments that have been made such as G-Dawg's. Do you think you that you are safe from something like this happening to you? Have you ever felt passionate about something you believed in? If you have did you do something about it?

You really are a piece of work and I feel really sorry for you. You sound so angry and lost. You must have been a troubled child I suggest you get some help.


COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... Bill said on 5/4/2007 @ 7:31 pm PT...

Truly terrifying--the decapitations, the oceans of blood, the dead children!the procession of idiot commentators.


COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/4/2007 @ 8:36 pm PT...

Mitchell said: "And how would you like it if you were in another country and people referred to you in a snide nasty way as an "illegal alien," (with their nose turned up when they say it?) as if you are not even a human being? Do you have the wherewithal to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a moment to think how you would feel being referred to like that?"

Their shoes DO NOT BELONG HERE! They have come here through the back door knowing they are thwarting our immigration laws. I have NO SYMPATHY for purposeful law breakers. We are a nation of laws. If you don't like it go live somewhere like Mexico where they don't have laws.


COMMENT #61 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/4/2007 @ 8:38 pm PT...

I quote from LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/n...story?coll=la-home-local

Police union leaders urged Wednesday against a "rush to judgment."

"

Our officers gave a legal dispersal order and were met with violence . In the coming days it will become clear what transpired," said Los Angeles Police Protective League President Bob Baker in a statement.

The move to clear the area came after

a small group of protesters, described by Bratton as involving between 50 and 100 agitators, some with bandannas obscuring their faces, began throwing rocks and plastic bottles at police. Although some reporters at the scene heard an order to disperse from the advancing officers, others did not. The order appeared to come from an officer on foot with a megaphone just north of the intersection of Alvarado and 7th.

By 6:20 p.m., after the initial rock- and plastic bottle-throwing incident spurred the decision to close down a rally that was permitted to last until 9 p.m., two lines of officers began moving northwest through the park. Officers formed a wide V and swept protesters and members of the media before them.

---------------------------

So stop with the happy horseshit about police attacking protesters ok?


COMMENT #62 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/5/2007 @ 12:10 am PT...

Quote:

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's statement on the violence against the police, and by the police, during the May 1 rally in the park:

Yesterday, across the country, we witnessed a day of overwhelmingly peaceful speeches and assemblies in the best American tradition. Approximately 35,000 Angelenos took to the streets to exercise their First Amendment rights.

At approximately 5:30, near the conclusion of a day of peaceful marches and rallies in Los Angeles, it seems that a small number of individuals began throwing objects at police officers. This was a sad end to a very peaceful and positive day.

We believe that the individuals who instigated the conflict had no direct connection to the marches.

As police personnel worked to clear the street and the park, and as the march organizers asked the crowd to disperse, members of the media and the public appear to have been caught in the exchange between the LAPD and these instigators.

I have reviewed the extensive video of the incident, and like every Angeleno, I am obviously and deeply concerned.

Any time that our law enforcement officials employ force, the public has an absolute and unqualified right to expect and demand an aggressive review of the facts. This review is already underway.

I have asked Chief Bratton to oversee a complete and comprehensive review of this incident. While we won't make any rush to judgment, we can't be afraid to make tough judgments about this or any incident.

I am asking Police Commission President John Mack to ensure a comprehensive and thorough review of the actions taken by LAPD. He has

assured my office that the Commission intends to review the incident aggressively.

In addition, I am in close and constant communication with Acting Mayor Eric Garcetti, and we will continue to work together to monitor the situation and the facts as they unfold.

End Quote

http://www.laobserved.co...or_on_macarthur_park.php

In addition:

The Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton admitted the actions taken by the police were inappropriate. He said, "I was disturbed at what I saw." The LAPD has launched a pair of investigations. Several news groups say they're considering legal action.

L.A. Immigration Protest: The Police "Were Relentless. They Were Merciless."

By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now!. Posted May 4, 2007.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/51454/


COMMENT #63 [Permalink]

... MS said on 5/5/2007 @ 12:31 am PT...

The scariest part of this whole thing is that there are people out there like Gdawg (or whatever his alias is) whose simple minds are just incapable of comprehend the ramifications of this act of oppression that we just witnessed in LA. In his blind rage against all those "illegals" he forgets, or just doesn't care, that many of those people brutalized by the Police may have been US Citizens. Or how does he know exactly who was illegal and who wasn't? He must be some kind of clairvoyant or have xray vision... Heh, I wish I had that kind of power.

History has taught us hard lessons about unchecked and unrestrained power. Most Germans bought into the BS that was fed to them by Hitler and the brownshirts until it was too late to backtrack. Gdawg may think that he's being a patriot by saying "fuck the Mexicans"... until his neighbor decides he doesn't like him because he doesn't brush his teeth and rats him out to the American Gestapo for being a health hazard to the State, in a not so far fetched future. It happened once in Germany, a country much like this, with people much like us, with leaders much like ours; so make no mistake Gdawg, it can happen again. The only question is: Who will rat you out first?

All I have to say to you Gdawg, is you better hope the Liberals in Congress start acting and acting fast to save your dumb ass from the ugly darkness of Fascism. If all that's keeping you and me from the depths of tyranny is a small group of lawmakers, then you better hope they're all "damn Liberals". Otherwise, the least of your troubles will be all those dirty Mexicans you hate so much. Because if Fascism comes to America, at least they'll have their country to go back to.

Where will you go, Gdawg?


COMMENT #64 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/5/2007 @ 12:58 am PT...

MS,

You wrote "Because if Fascism comes to America..."

I just wanted to point out that fascism is already here:

12 Warning Signs of Fascism

http://www.mvp-seattle.com/pages/pageFascism.htm


COMMENT #65 [Permalink]

... JB said on 5/5/2007 @ 10:26 am PT...

This whole things was started by some of the illegal alien parasites that were throwing rocks and bottles at the cops. A day where law breakers are running is always a good day.

If Mexico is so great than why are millions dieing to get out of there?


COMMENT #66 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 3:04 pm PT...

I'm sick and tired of hearing the LIES by the AnswerLA and other insurgent socialist groups about this event. This was started by violent illegal alien insurgent ingrates and now that I know the TRUTH I wish the police had used REAL bullets. Shame on FOX. Shame on Villagiarosa! Shame on Bratton! Americans have had enough lawlessness and the tying of the hands of our Border agents and law enforcement officers. This is not a fascist response - this is a lawful response to controlling a violent group intent on bringing violence to the "peaceful" rally. This is what happens when you whip up people to feel they have rights when they are here illegally and that they are somehow oppressed when they came here knowing the deal. Sorry but I have NO SYMPATHY for any of you people.


COMMENT #67 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 3:07 pm PT...

Mayor Villagiarosa is a Hispanic first and American second and he is a traitor and should be hung from a very high tree.


COMMENT #68 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/5/2007 @ 4:02 pm PT...

Zorro,

I don't know if your hatred and bile is intended to get a rise out of people or if you are being serious in your posts and it's just your cold, inhumane being coming through.

I see that you are encouraging and condoning the possible murder, killing and mayhem of innocent protesters as well as the hanging of the Mayor of Los Angeles.

I find your comments absolutely repugant, despicable and reprehensible, but so very typical of right-wing fascists (that's how you come off to me). To fascists, everything is "solved" in their "mind" by murder, killing, death, destruction and mayhem.

You wrote that the Los Angeles cops should have used real bullets on the protesters and you wrote that the Mayor of Los Angeles should be hung.

Don't these outrageous and vile comments make you a "terrorist?" I think that people have been arrested for making similar threatening statements in the past. I wonder what Homeland InSecurity thinks about you and your threats? Hmmmmm. Maybe a holiday at Gitmo would give you a clearer perspective on this issue, if that's possible.

I hope Brad has something to say about your threatening posts.

This country has been practising murder and killing ever since the Native Americans were wiped out by white people who took and stole their land and such practises have continued ever since. But you've learned nothing from history.

Sad and pathetic.


COMMENT #69 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 4:30 pm PT...

I am not a fascist nor right wing. I am a patriotic American who is SICK and TIRED of the propaganda telling us illegal immigration is GOOD for us when it clearly is not. I'm sick and tired to the LIES from the leftists about this May Day incident when it clearly WAS a provoked police action. The Mayor of LA is against America and for the influx of millions of illegal aliens. He is a traitor and only 100 years ago people would be hanged for being a traitor against one's country.

My posts are NOT threatening. Don't try to paint them as hate speech or threats. It is MY OPINION that the Mayor of LA is a traitor and should be hanged. A threat is if I said I wanted to hang him myself. BIG difference. Here is a promise. I will give my LIFE to save this country from the illegal alien invasion and I am very prepared to do so. You on the other hand are probably a sniveling liberal college kid who knows nothing of sacrifice for one's country. So to you I say - shut the hell up. And furthermore - the right wingers don't have any corner on hate. I see hate coming from BOTH sides of this issue and it is being fueled by an useless lame duck President who has done more damage to this country than any enemy ever could have. And I voted for the bozo!

Go ahead and try to label me as some kind of right wingnut. Labels can't and won't change my opinion of what is happening in this country. It's outrageous that our nation of laws should become so lawless. Our leaders should be ashamed of themselves INCLUDING the Mayor of LA and the Mayor of San Francisco.

I think we should cede California to the Mexicans and then build a wall on OUR side of the San Andreas Fault and let them fall off into the ocean when the next BIG ONE hits.

You know what? I'm sick and tired of you people using the "hate speech" thing against people who are PISSED OFF that their country is overrun with illegal aliens.

I HAVE A GOD DAMNED RIGHT TO BE PISSED OFF AND IF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT MAKES A THREAT.

We still have the First Amendment although liberals are trying their best to dismantle it and you know what is funny? That will backfire on them just as the Don Imus thing has. Rappers use the same insulting hate speech in their rap songs - so let's start eradicating all hate speech from everything. Let's also take a look at the hateful things La Raza and MeCHA have to say about Gringos shall we? Slippery slope indeed...


COMMENT #70 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/5/2007 @ 5:15 pm PT...

Zorro,

You claim that your threats are just your opinion. I'm not so sure that the "opinion" defense would hold up very well in a court of law these days with many people so fixated on the "terror" card.

Yes, we do still have The First Amendment to some degree, what's left of it. The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights apply to citizens

and noncitizens alike . And may I remind you that the protesters were expressing their opinions---and not harming anyone, mind you---under the First Amendment, just as the Mayor of Los Angeles said.

You say that you are free to express your opinion, yet you think that the protesters---

which included citizens and noncitizens ---should have been shot with real bullets for expressing their opinions.

So in your "mind," the First Amendment only applies to those people who want to express their opposition to undocumented immigrants/workers?


COMMENT #71 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 5:22 pm PT...

trea·son /ˈtrizən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tree-zuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.

2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.

3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

[Origin: 1175–1225; ME tre(i)so(u)n Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government .

Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense.


COMMENT #72 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 5:25 pm PT...

The people protesting on May Day Mitchell were ILLEGAL ALIENS and thus they are not protected under the US Constitution with Freedom of Speech. Nice try.

They are trying to make it sound like they are "immigrants" but LEGAL immigrants have no need to protest because they are treated like citizens.

Get your facts straight and stop threatening ME with some kind of legal action that you have no right to. I am not afraid of YOUR THREATS which are meant to silence me. I WILL NOT BE SILENCED NOR WILL THE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD ENOUGH!


COMMENT #73 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 5:30 pm PT...

trai·tor /ˈtreɪtər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trey-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.

2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

trai·tor (trā'tər) Pronunciation Key

n. One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

From wikipedia:

For other uses, see Treason (disambiguation) or Traitor (disambiguation).

In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

Murder is now generally considered the worst of crimes, but in the past, treason was thought of as worse. In English law high treason was punishable by being hanged, drawn and quartered (men) or burnt at the stake (women), the only crime which attracted those penalties (until the Treason Act 1814). In fact the punishment was devised by King Edward I to punish the leaders of resistance to his invasions of Wales and Scotland, which were separate countries before he invaded them. In both cases the charge of treason was questionable, especially in the case of William Wallace of Scotland.[citation needed] The penalty was used by later monarchs against people who could reasonably be called traitors, although most modern jurists would call it excessive.

The Constitution does not itself create the offense; it only restricts the definition. The crime is prohibited by legislation passed by Congress. Therefore the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States." The requirement of testimony of two witnesses was inherited from the British Treason Act 1695.


COMMENT #74 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 6:02 pm PT...

http://www.americanpatro...cilmanVillyMechaBoy.html

LOS ANGELES - July 24, 1997 - (VCT --- Now American Patrol) --- State Assemblyman, Antonio Villaraigosa (D-District 45) Majority leader of the California State Assembly, claims that immigration is the responsibility of California.

Speaking on the radio interview show "Which Way L.A.?" (KCRW - FM) on Thursday, July 24, Villaraigosa said, "The federal government has said that this issue of immigration isn't a federal issue, it's a California issue. Guess what? California has half the immigrants in the entire nation."

.......Together with Assembly Speaker Cruz Bustamante, who appeared on the same program, Villaraigosa demanded that California taxpayers pick up the tab for welfare services to legal immigrants which has been dropped by the federal government.

"As I recall," said Glenn Spencer, president of Voice of Citizens Together, a grass-roots organization opposed to illegal immigration, "when the Mexicans were fighting Proposition 187 they told us that it was an illegal state scheme to regulate immigration. In fact, federal judge Mariana Pfaelzer, their co-conspirator, used just that language to strike down Proposition 187. Now they say that immigration is a state issue. You simply can't have it both ways."

Bustamante and Villaraigosa pledge to hold up the state budget until Governor Wilson agrees to pay for food stamps and other services for the Mexicans .


COMMENT #75 [Permalink]

... Zorro said on 5/5/2007 @ 6:14 pm PT...

http://www.mayorno.com/WhatIsMecha.html

Antonio Villaraigosa is the former Chairman of the UCLA Chapter of MEChA, an anti-American and anti-Israel separatist group vowing to liberate Aztlan (the U.S. Southwest), who refer to themselves as La Raza (The Race).

Antonio Villaraigosa (then, Tony Villar) leading a protest to include the Communist organization "Committee to Free Los Tres" on the Steering Committee of the Chicano Studies Center. UCLA campus, May 23, 1974.

“Born to Raise Hell” – at UCLA: Antonio Villaraigosa, a one-time juvenile delinquent still tattooed with the slogan “Born to Raise Hell,” entered the UCLA campus as a transfer student from East Los Angeles Community College in 1972. Known then simply as Tony Villar, he would not successfully graduate by the time he left in 1975.(1) But Villar did leave a wide swath of influence in other, more radical ways.

While on campus, Villar joined the UCLA chapter of Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan (MEChA), and was part of its leadership by 1974. MEChA had only been founded as a regional movement in 1969, and in many ways, the UCLA chapter, and the radical Chicano student left today, is a direct product of Villar’s work then.

The official national symbol of MEChA is an eagle holding a machete-like weapon and a stick of dynamite.

WHAT IS MEChA?

The acronym MEChA stands for "Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan." or "Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan."

MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States --- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán."

These anti-American "Mechistas" live with the false illusion that they are being racially discriminated against because they are Latinos while totally dismissing the idea that maybe it is their ideology that is being discriminated against.

MEChA groups exist in public high schools, college and university campuses in all of the United States

(1) “His 'Second Chance' Shaped Villaraigosa,” by Matea Gold, May 31, 2001, Los Angeles Times

http://www.conspiracyarc...mmentary/Ground_Zero.htm

The Ruling Class-Sponsored Race War and the Balkanization of America Part Two: Is California Ground Zero?

- by Paul Collins ©, July 6th, 2006

TrotskyitesIn part one we presented evidence suggesting the Minutemen project was being radicalized by white supremacists and certain leading lights in the power elite. This radicalization process is meant to undermine efforts to restore America's border integrity and to manufacture a politically expedient race war. Radicalized border activists and Chicano radicals are being set up to enter into conflict with one another. California seems to be the ideal staging grounds for the beginning of this conflict.

Ground Zero: California

The most likely place for a race war to begin is California. It is in this state that two individuals possessing radical racist views have risen to political power. These individuals will be able to mobilize the different racist groups for a confrontation. They are Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Antonio Villaraigosa would lead the Mexican racists' charge. Roger D. McGrath describes Villaraigosa's racist background:

Antonio Villaraigosa was known as Tony Villar when he was growing up on the Eastside. (He combined his surname with that of his wife, Corina Raigosa, to create the last name he uses now.) As Villar, he attended East Los Angeles Junior College and then transferred to UCLA in 1972 under an "affirmative action" program. By the time he left UCLA in 1975, he had not graduated but had risen to a position of leadership in the campus chapter of Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, better known by its acronym, MEChA. The group was organized in 1969 by Mexican-American college students, for the most part, who preferred to call themselves Chicanos and Chicanas. MEChA proudly proclaims that its mission is to reclaim California and the rest of the Southwest—an area MECha calls Aztlan—from "the foreigner 'gabacho' who exploits our riches and destroys our culture… [W]e declare the independence of our mestizo nation. We are a bronze people with a bronze culture. Before the world, before all of North America, before all our brothers in the bronze continent, we are a nation, we are a union of free pueblos, we are Aztlan." (12)

Why exactly WAS Villairagosa in South America anyway? He is a MAYOR not in Congress or Presidente.

Hello Patriotic Americans - wake up to the war we are in the middle of or you risk losing your country.

The denouncement of the LAPD for their quelling of riots in McArthur Park by Villaraigosa is just more of the same shit we are seeing from a LA RAZA buddy Attorney General Alberto Gonzales when it comes to Border Agents doing their jobs.

They are both double agents for Mexico and they should be removed from office and tried for treason!


COMMENT #76 [Permalink]

... BigTobacco said on 5/6/2007 @ 10:04 am PT...

Zorro, sounds like a warmed over version of Protocols of the Elders of Zion or something with some anti-mexican propaganda thrown in.

We had MECha when I went to college... all they did was organize cultural activities and bring speakers to campus. Which to some, I guess, is scary.

Maybe it was different in the late '60s, but most of the "mexican separatist" and Aztlan theories that we hear about in popular culture originate from White Supremacist organizations.

In any case, the police shouldn't beat people up for hanging out in the park to talk politics.


COMMENT #77 [Permalink]

... BigTobacco said on 5/6/2007 @ 10:10 am PT...

Zorro... How do you know they were illegals. I saw some black people there. The camera crews that got beat up, too. The guy in the red overalls. These folks all snuck in from Mexico, too?

The police weren't there on behalf of the INS, they were there to keep people safe. They failed miserably.


COMMENT #78 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 5/6/2007 @ 12:49 pm PT...

Did anyone think to ask the police if they are tired of protecting wealthy industrialist's narcissistic insistence on hiring disposable labor?


COMMENT #79 [Permalink]

... ewastud said on 5/6/2007 @ 1:24 pm PT...

These "anarchists" or other troublemakers that Lou Dobbs and the LA police union representative cite as starting the trouble (if they existed at all, which is questionable) may well have been covert provocateurs on the payroll of the police or some other government, intelligence-related agency. This tactic was used by corrupt elements within our government during the turbulent 1960's and 70's against demonstrators to incite police action and attempt to discredit the demonstrators. It was known as the COINTELPRO within the corrupt FBI directed by the cross-dressing J. Edgar Hoover. I suspect there are corrupt elements of the federal government intel or law enforcement behind this latest LAPD action, too.

We seem to be witnessing a comeback of the worst fascist elements in our society that we saw during the Vietnam War and the Richard Nixon/Spiro Agnew "reign" of power. There seem to be so many parallels.


COMMENT #80 [Permalink]

... stdcdh31 said on 5/6/2007 @ 3:28 pm PT...

Rubber bullets for order I believe it is a fair trade.I'm so sorry that unruly individuals had to be reprimanded for disorderly conduct. And to those "including many women and children who were clearly caught completely off guard," I would hope that no matterwhat the situation is mothers would keep their children out of a riot or harms way. But apparently those involved in the riot kept their children there for comfort. Therefore, the people in the riot thought it imperative to use their own children as a buffer against the police. There is a word for people with such a low calibre we call them scum. Thus, if you are a moron stand with the masses of ignorant people against the best government in the world, and see what you accomplish. The only thing you shall accomplish is the destruction of America, there is also a word for that individual,Terrorist. So far I watched a video of scum supported by terrorist, great job idiots.Quite trying to destroy the current American system.If you want to make a difference quit watching MTV and attain an education.

The Video and the Commentary was absolutely disgusting,PIGS!


COMMENT #81 [Permalink]

... Astroboy108 said on 5/6/2007 @ 4:17 pm PT...

G-Dawg's rants are infused with FEAR. He is a coward and a hate-monger who would't have the balls to spew his bullshit to the face of any single person he disparages. He's scared shitless-- poor, pathetic and pitiable.


COMMENT #82 [Permalink]

... BigTobacco said on 5/6/2007 @ 5:36 pm PT...

stdcdh31,

It wasn't a riot until the police started shooting people. And even then, it wasn't so much a riot as much as it was people running for their lives.

It's hard to follow the sprawling psychedelic rant that you've laid out... But I'm pretty sure that no matter how hard the police were working to "destroy the American system" that day, they weren't being paid by terrorists.


COMMENT #83 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/7/2007 @ 11:47 am PT...

LA police officers disciplined for rally violence

Los Angeles- Los Angeles police chief William Bratton has ordered up to 60 officers off the streets for their role in using rubber bullets and batons to break up a mostly peaceful immigration rally last week, the Los Angeles Times reported Monday.

The officers served in the force's Metropolitan Division, which is the city's premier police squad with extensive training in crowd control tactics. Police and the FBI are investigating why the officers fired some 150 rubber bullets without making any arrests, and beat many onlookers, including some journalists, with batons.

Officers in the Metropolitan Division's B Platoon "in all likelihood will not remain in that unit and some of them will not be returning to the Metropolitan function, as a result of some of our investigation into the actions of some of our officers," Bratton said.

"This was not the idea that my least-trained, my least-experienced officers were the ones engaged in the activities," Bratton said.

"This was my best, and that was what was extraordinarily disturbing about this."

He said further disciplinary action will await the completion of an LAPD investigation to be presented to the City Council on May 30.

But he also acknowledged the responsibility he and other senior officers bore for the scenes of police brutality that were broadcast around the world.

"One thing I know about them [police] is you have to control them, because they go out of control faster than any human being in the world" because of the traumatic circumstances of their work, he said.

The chief also said that the entire chain of responsibility within the police department will be examined for responsibility.

"I feel very comfortable apologizing in general, particularly to the press corps that were subject to what I believe were inappropriate actions on the part of some members of that unit," Bratton said. "Corruption, brutality, inappropriate behaviour, I'm not going to defend. I'm not going make a fool of myself. A lot of what happened on that field that day is indefensible."

© 2006 - dpa German Press Agency

http://rawstory.com/news...lined_for__05072007.html


COMMENT #84 [Permalink]

... Nunyabiz said on 5/7/2007 @ 6:52 pm PT...

Zorro is obviously a Reich wing idiot that has been brainwashed by watching Faux Noise.

It is highly unlikely that more than just a handful at most of all those protesters were so called "illegals".

Id say 98% were legal US citizens.

Not to mention it shouldn't make any difference if they were or not as non-citizens are still supposed to be covered as far as free speech and of course no one is ever supposed to be treated like these people were regardless.

The LAPD are 100% in the wrong here and anyone that says otherwise is a Reich wing lunatic without a clue.


COMMENT #85 [Permalink]

... stdcdh31 said on 5/7/2007 @ 7:36 pm PT...

BigTobacco, I am not saying the police were completely right but I am definitly not saying that mass protests by ignorant masses is correct either. Tell me how many Professionals or successful business men were in that crowd of people. You have to contemplate who are making these decisions, people whom will work for there living or those whom expect to be given everything. How many people were killed in the incident? So a mass group of pretentious individuals banned toghether to cause a problem and they were disbanded in a undeadly effective manner. I am from Texas and have dealt with some real ignorant cops and came out on the losing end, but I understand that they have their purpose. Think about three hundred police officers trying to settle down a thousand pist of uneducated miniorities and the people refuse listen, thats called anarchy and should be stopped.The video itself was full of cussing and ridculous commentary, acting like the people were being murdered, RUBBER BULLETS!!! In fact the lead commentator is totally milking the supporters of this video for all your ignorant sympathy. This video is anarchist propaganda, in fact a direct quote from the video claims that "next time when the m#otha-f*cking police come will be ready for them m*tha F*uckig pigs." Psycho!!!!Really should we base any merit with people whom are so irrational, and if we do, then why don't we just start teaching morals to children via violent rap music?


COMMENT #86 [Permalink]

... MS said on 5/7/2007 @ 10:59 pm PT...

I'm sorry Zorro, but no matter how hard you try to deny it, YOU ARE A FASCIST.

You're not a patriot. You don't love your country. You just want an excuse to HATE. You entertain racist and xenophobic thoughts that consume you and you can't control. YOU ARE A SOCIOPATH.

You would engage in MURDER if you thought you could get away with it. If you'd been born in Germany during the 1920s you would've felt right at home with the Nazis. But instead of Mexicans you would've hated Jews.

There is nothing righteous or honorable to what you preach, Zorro. It's a lot like owning slaves. IT IS WRONG. You are morally bankrupt, Zorro.

You try to lend legitimacy to your hate by posting definitions of "treason" and other propaganda. But your essence shines through. You are nothing but a filthy, stinking, hating, racist, radical right-wing FASCIST.

From Wikipedia:

Fascist: One who advocates an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests inferior to the needs of the state, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on ethnic, religious, cultural, or racial attributes.

Characteristics of fascism: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism.

There you have it guys. Let it be known that Zorro HATES people. Let it be known he's a FASCIST. Let it be known he can't hide his true nature. Let it be known he yields to his hateful thoughts. Let it be known he's NOT one of us.


COMMENT #87 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/8/2007 @ 12:38 am PT...

stdcdh31,

So you're from Bush's state of TX. Oh good lord. That explains some of your drivel.

For someone like yourself who is so damn uptight that they have a problem with sexual words of American English (what you call "cussing"....I haven't heard that word in ages) I find it interesting that you then quote what you would call "cussing." How were your fingers able to type such "offensive" language? You had to listen to it with your prude ears in order to be able to transcribe it. You must not have been too offended by it! LOL. I swear, some people!

I thought Jonathan did an excellent job with the commentary.

You also made a blanket statement and referred to the protesters as "pretentious." Frankly, I don't think you even know what the word means because it doesn't at all fit in describing the protesters I saw on the videos (including Jonathan's) and on Univision television. The protesters were anything but pretentious. Nor were they "irrational," as you claim.

The bottom line is that you are hell-bent to put down the protesters with your holier-than-thou attitude.

If the word "pretentious" applies to anyone, it's YOU. Now I suggest you look up the word pretentious since you obviously don't have a clue what it means.


COMMENT #88 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/8/2007 @ 12:45 am PT...

Let it be known he's NOT one of us.

Er,

that sounds damn bigoted to me, MS... stepping into the pot calling the kettle black sorta thing here now.


COMMENT #89 [Permalink]

... stdcdh31 said on 5/8/2007 @ 1:12 am PT...

Mitchell, YOU ARE NO GENTLEMAN SIR, AND A HEALTHY COMBINATION OF RUDE, ARROGANT AND IGNORANT. SO IN THAT WASTE OF TIME(YOUR EXCERPT) WERE IS YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THE VALIDITY OF THE VIDEO, ALL YOU SIMPLY DID WAS CRTIQUE ME AS A PERSON BY JUDGING AN EXCERPT THAT TOOK ME FIVE MINUTES TO WRITE. OBVIOUSLY MY COMMENTS MADE YOU SO FRUSTRATED THAT YOU FORGOT, TO DEFEND THE VIDEO OR YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO CONDUCT A DISCUSSION, THATS WHY PEOPLE GO TO COLLEGE TO LEARN HOW TO ENGAGE AND UPHOLD A WORTHWHILE CONVERSATION. YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK INTO I HIGHLY RECCOMMEND IT, MY BOY.

SINCERELY

STDCDH31


COMMENT #90 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/8/2007 @ 1:38 am PT...

stdcdh31,

Conduct a discussion with someone with your views? Impossible! I learned long ago that's not possible.

Some years ago I tried to have discussions with people of your ilk but after hitting wall after wall after wall I quickly learned that I was wasting my time. I'm not about to change your mind in the least so there is no basis or reason for a discussion. That's the reality of the situation.

I defended the video in another thread, which apparently you haven't read. I thank Jonathan for the work he did.

By the way, are you in need of a new keyboard or do you often "shout" (ALL CAPS) when you posts?

Don't forget to look up the word pretentious.

And I'm not "your boy" by the way.


COMMENT #91 [Permalink]

... stdcdh31 said on 5/8/2007 @ 1:59 am PT...

Obviously you are the impossible individual, I discuss for the better of humankind, you sir are a liberal bigot whom simply cannot express themselves and resort to defamation of character to prove a nonexistent point.


COMMENT #92 [Permalink]

... MS said on 5/8/2007 @ 10:41 am PT...

Well, Agent 99 I guess you're just gonna have to live with it. You accuse me of bigotry for exposing a real bigot? OK, well I don't know how you came to that conclusion but you're certainly entitled to your opinion even if it makes no sense. And if you're comfortable having a radical right-wing nut in your midst and not distance yourself from him, well then you fit right in too. For my part I'm not retracting a word. Zorro IS a fascist and he's NOT one of us.


COMMENT #93 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/8/2007 @ 12:01 pm PT...

MS,

When you wrote that Zorro is a fascist and he's not one of us, did you mean that he's not one of us progressives/Liberals?

(By the way, Zorro means fox in Spanish).


COMMENT #94 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/8/2007 @ 12:50 pm PT...

Indeed, MS, I

do have to live with it, all around me, all the time, with everyone, of any political persuasion, including none. The genesis of all bigotry is the self/other --- us/them --- bit looking for a consensus.

bigotry |ˈbigətrē| noun bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself : the report reveals racism and right-wing bigotry. See note at bias . ORIGIN late 17th cent.: from bigot , reinforced by French bigoterie.

Ordinarily, we don't tolerate calling other commenters names here, don't tolerate comments such as you have been subjected to and have duly subjected us to. Brad felt we should suspend these guidelines for this discussion because it is an issue Americans need to get hashed out. I'm assuming Zorro has as meaningful a vote as you do (either zero or one) and I sure the heck can't figure out how your comment is any less polarizing than his.

A lot of liberals have had it past their eyeballs with the real social crisis the mass immigration has caused, the real economic harm it is doing to their families. A lot of conservatives are eager for our country to tolerate it... and

not just because the cheap labor makes their bottom line so much prettier. Real humans from every walk of life are experiencing real, life-altering, problems because this issue is not solved, because this issue is muddied further so it can be used as a wedge, used to get votes without ever intending to solve it.

So. I think you would do well to sit back and consider

what might have made Zorro comment so repulsively to you, rather than just slap a label on it and start screaming epithets. Or, if you're going to scream epithets, you could at least not try to call down "the wrath of the congregation" on Zorro's different opinions.

It actually seems to me that many people, the armies of right wing trolls on the internet, say, have chosen to become that in-your-face-offensive to liberals and progressives because they are

sick of the relentless resort to self-righteousness that gets slapped on them every time they try to discuss things that are important to them. I'm getting this idea because I tried to discuss a study that had been done at some university of the real effects of the immigration numbers, legal and illegal, with someone I've known for a long time, someone who knows full well I'm no racist, but he

instantly started in calling me these ugly names.

It's really easy to see people with whom one does not agree calling others ugly names, but not so easy to see oneself engaging in the practice of mudslinging in place of problem solving. Our planet is burning down. Time we start getting the productive kind of real.

And, quoth Lao Tzu:

When everyone thinks good is good, this is not good.


COMMENT #95 [Permalink]

... Tanto said on 5/8/2007 @ 1:48 pm PT...

I recieved this "call sheet" today - it suggests topic/ talking points to use when contacting your local senator. Thought it was timely...

"IMMIGRANTS ARE AMERICA

Americans want Congress to replace a broken system

with one that is controlled and fair

STOP THE POLITICAL BICKERING

SENATORS, FIX THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM NOW

KEY POINTS

Fix it now

 Our immigration system is badly broken. It’s up to Congress and the White House --- not states and local communities --- to fix it. and to fix it now.

 American workers want to replace this cycle of border deaths, worker exploitation, and lawlessness with a system that is practical, controlled, and fair.

 Immigration reform will be a test of whether our leaders can lead and solve tough problems. The Washington game of partisan posturing and finger pointing won’t cut it.

 Getting it done right will require bipartisan cooperation and political courage.

Comprehensive immigration reform IS the solution

 Enforcement-only has not and will not work. It is neither desirable or feasible to deport 12 million people living and working in our communities.

 A broader approach is needed, one that will replace an unregulated and chaotic system with a controlled and legal system that is practical to implement.

 Workable comprehensive reform combines a range of practical measures to restore the rule of law, protect workers, unite families, promote citizenship, respect civil rights, and help local communities.

Immigrants ARE America - It’s time to bring the U.S. Back in Line with its Values

 Immigrants work hard, pay taxes, sacrifice for their families, want to learn English, and believe in the American Dream. The signs in the marches said it all: “We Are America.”

 America is at its best when it overcomes “us vs. them” fear to forge unity out of diversity.

 Workable immigration reform will help us live up to our finest ideals by creating an immigration system consistent with the basic American values of fairness and equal treatment under the law.

Workers Deserve Better – Immigration Reform Must Eliminate Guest Worker Programs

• The only way to ensure that every job in this country is filled by a legal permanent resident is to create enough legal channels for immigrants to come and work in this country. These new channels must meet our nation’s economic growth and provide full labor protections and a path to citizenship. Otherwise, we will perpetuate our broken system and go on creating a permanent working underclass."


COMMENT #96 [Permalink]

... Mitchell said on 5/8/2007 @ 1:58 pm PT...

Agent 99 wrote:

A lot of liberals have had it past their eyeballs with the real social crisis the mass immigration has caused

How do you know they are a Liberal just because they call themself a Liberal? People can call themselves anything these days and they do. The so-called Liberals (they sound like right-wingers to me) I've seen spewing their bile hatred at the undocumented immigrants are some of the same people who support right-wing neocon pro-war Hillary and say that the Dems should not try to impeach Bush and essentially let Bush, Cheney and the criminals around them off the hook for everything they have done since 2000 and that the Dems should just focus on 2008. And they call themselves a "Liberal."

So. I think you would do well to sit back and consider what might have made Zorro comment so repulsively to you, rather than just slap a label on it...

Why don't you write the same thing to Zorro and ask him to consider what might have made other people's comments so repulsive to him? Why do you reprimand the Liberal? That is so typical. From my experience on message boards, it is damn rare than progressives will stand with each other and stick up for each other. After writing about "slapping a label on it," you used the label of "Liberal." These words "Liberal" and "Conservative" are becoming meaningless as I explained in my first paragraph.

I can't believe you're defending Zorro, or at least that's the way it comes off. From my experience, there is often little rationale and reason to what people such as Zorro have to say. From my experience such people don't think for themselves. Instead they regurgitate what they've heard some right-wing fascist talk show host spew, which is hate, hate, hate.

And that "texbook" definition of bigotry is about as turned around and rigid as one can get. Going by that twisted definition if someone such as myself despises and refuses to put up with another person's hatred and "intolerance" toward undocumented immigrants or gay people, for example, that somehow makes ME the "bigot." Go figure! That's about as twisted thinking as one can get! I have relatives who are Bush supporters. We can't talk politics at all. Does that make either of us "intolerant" and a "bigot" because we know from our experience with each other that we're not about to agree on ANYTHING? Does that make us a "bigot?" Hardly! They wouldn't call me a bigot and vice versa. We get along all right otherwise. We don't talk about much but we do all right in each other's company.

I interpreted MS's post to mean that Zorro was not "one of us" progressives or Liberals. Well, he AIN'T. He is not a progressive or a Liberal from the posts I've read. MS just stated the truth, the reality.

I have spent years trying to talk with people such as Zorro and I've learned it's a complete waste of time. I will not accomplish a damn thing with someone like that. I will hit wall after wall after wall. No internet reference or website referral is ever sufficient, unless it comes from Faux News that is.

One can not talk reason to blinders-on prejudice or hatred.


COMMENT #97 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/8/2007 @ 3:11 pm PT...

Mitchell, I'm not "defending Zorro", I'm pointing out the ugliness of the knee-jerk reactions to his expression of his opinion, and postulating that he might feel driven to more extreme and less reverent terminology precisely because his peers continually react to his attempts to make valid points by slapping "racist" or "fascist" labels on him, continuing on in their "unracist" or "nonfascist" masturbation at his expense. It's pretty clear that Zorro is one of the people who wants to get to the heart of the problem and solve it, as directly contrasted with those who just want to use the issue to help them illustrate their virtuous sympathy for the starving hordes pouring into our country. I'm allowing for the possibility that he is so sick of the self-image junkies pouncing on his attempts to get solved a life-and-death threat to our country's well-being, turning it into a circus that lets the threat grow exponentially worse each day,

INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING THE ISSUE . You and MS seem to be addressing, also unproductively, racism and fascism, while completely ignoring the very real problems caused by such uncontrolled, and illegal, immigration. You seem

deaf to

the most fundamental concerns of working class America. You guys seem almost to be on the side of the plutocrats using this flood of hungry people to turn the labor pool into outright serfdom. So I can imagine Zorro being fed up with it.

One can not talk reason to earplugs-in determination to label others as prejudiced and hate-filled for trying to get a problem solved. Where one was once simply trying to engage his fellow citizens, one might now be in a state of alarm about their deafness. So one might start getting pretty colorful inside one's mounting concern over the burgeoning encampments of homeless

CITIZENS cropping up behind shopping malls in even the smallest cities. (The fact that many of those cops know those homeless people and identify with them might also have contributed to their readiness to get violent, but this isn't being addressed either.)

As soon as you get over knee-battered chin soreness, maybe you could consider these things? I for one would be much relieved to see all sides discussing these matters fully and with compassion for each other. You don't seem to grok that it is in fact just as easy for others to lose their patience with your deafness as you find it to lose your patience with their blindness. The free-for-all of name-calling that passes for civic discourse lately is

DEFINITELY non-partisan.


COMMENT #98 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/8/2007 @ 3:21 pm PT...

Mitchell, you used a keyword that put you on the moderation queue, and your sophistry is just appalling. Pull your pants up! There are women and children here.


COMMENT #99 [Permalink]

... MS said on 5/9/2007 @ 12:49 am PT...

Agent 99, I'm a liberal. Mitchell was right in interpreting my comments about Zorro not being one of us as meaning us liberals/progressives/left wing/communists or whatever you wanna call us (you just can't be sure these days). And since I'm a liberal, I'm going to put aside any sort of condescending attitude that you seem to think I have and I will simply address the issue at hand.

In regards to your point about the "social crisis" this "unchecked" immigration policy has caused. I don't know about social crisis. All I see is people all around me, people like you and me who are treated less than fair. People who are mothers, fathers, sons and daughters who have to check their dignity at the door wherever they go. If this is what you mean by social crisis, then we are indeed in crisis. But I think that far from contributing to a healthy debate, Zorro's comments only make things worse. And yet, you prefer to attack me or Mitchell for exposing Zorro as someone with fascist tendencies while sparing the Fox any kind of scrutiny for his comments. Do you deny his comments are a bit radical? Do you also feel like illegal immigrants are the real villains here? What about corporate America and its Republican minions who are pretty much the enablers of this whole debacle? Do you have anything to say about them? Which is more perverse, the impoverished peasant who desperately wants a better life for him and his family or the insatiable greed of a corporation who makes a mockery of all the labor laws and hires the illegal immigrant? Let's not forget we have two lawbreakers here, yet it's the weakest and most vulnerable of the two who becomes the target of haters like Zorro. We're targeting the wrong rascals if you ask me. Is this not addressing the issue? Where is it that we have more control, here in America enforcing our own laws or elsewhere trying to keep some poor devil from crossing the Rio Grande and suck our resources dry? Is this really the crisis you're talking about?

Look, Agent 99, I don't doubt that you're sincere in furthering the debate about this hot issue, but I do think that your efforts are misplaced. Stop trying to give everyone equal footing on their opinions because this is not conducive to a healthy debate, and instead it just succeeds in muddying it. The key to real solutions is use reason and clear thinking, something that some people are just incapable of achieving. Fallacies and bigotry are not valid solutions, no matter how you try to spin them.

If you want to talk about the root causes of this so called social crisis, then let's start by addressing some real issues here and stop trying to blame it all on liberals and illegal immigrants. It's easy to find a scapegoat when times are hard; the real challenge is to find solutions that respect human dignity.

Do you dare to disagree?


COMMENT #100 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/9/2007 @ 1:28 pm PT...

Zorro is your peer. He could serve on a jury to determine your guilt or innocence of a crime, same as you might for him. If you can't see the social crisis of large encampments of homeless people cropping up in your town --- to which out of control immigration definitely hugely contributes --- what's the sense in doing anything but continually reminding you that you are so fixated on treating other people as pets or as enemies, depending on how it serves your feeling of hatred for the ravages of racism and brutality, that the world would burn down while we waited for you to take a point that would advance your understanding.

Other humans are not pets. They are as responsible for their actions and decisions as you are for yours. Your relentlessness in pointing your finger instead of addressing --- indeed, even recognizing --- any other problem, here, is a vivid exposition of

WHY these problems are exploding in all our faces. You may think your condescending attitude toward immigrants somehow makes up for the privileged lifestyle you enjoy when compared to theirs, but guess what! It doesn't, and, worse, it actually helps make it worse for them and for your fellow citizens. These workers will be replaced by those who will work for still less the moment their employers see a way or the moment they try to get a living wage out of them, no matter what their race. It is not the least respectful of human dignity to ignore the responsibility of adults of any race, creed, national origin to live within the law, to address their problems in honest ways. That the problem exists primarily because of the greed of plutocrats does not absolve adults from any one country entering ours (or any other) illegally.

Zorro would probably agree to solving the problem by taking it out on the citizens who are dangling the carrot in front of hungry people, but you can't even see there

is a problem. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to do some research, or go out on a field trip into the real world, do what it takes to acquaint yourself with the real issues, to fathom, to

see the real issues. Maybe then you might agree that calling people names will not solve any problem, let alone

this one.

And, holding a party for your own so-called righteous position on racism on a blog comments thread is pretty damn annoying to people who really want to work on solutions. So, again, anyone reading this thread has to wonder whose side you're really on... the people's or those who get wealthy off this glut of dirt cheap labor? I don't care. I might start caring if you manage to become conversant with the real problems.


COMMENT #101 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 5/9/2007 @ 2:02 pm PT...

Well. And. As Americans, we really

do owe the people of the third world all our solidarity, all the help we can possibly give them in making better lives for themselves, but this very clearly can never be by turning the United States [or any other country!] into something out of a Mad Max movie, with gangs of food-and-shelter-and-energy-mad victims of social Darwinism in a swiftly heating to unlivable planetary atmosphere. Seems to me we have a choice: to be real leaders in bringing humankind out of planetary crises, or to be victims of them.

Getting stuck thinking of other adults in a manner not at all unlike one thinks of orphaned toddlers or stray poodles is so seriously not conducive to the

manifestation of positive intent within these crises. Your motives may seem decent to you, but they are not productive of anything at all greater than letting you continue to think well of yourself. This has to stop being everyone's prime concern. The true imperatives make this exactly analogous to hiding under the bed while the house burns down.


COMMENT #102 [Permalink]

... Kahoneez said on 5/9/2007 @ 4:32 pm PT...

A. Fact one Little dan, the legal status of the protesters was NOT an issue, even with the cops. They pushed out aLL people out of the park, who were PEACEFULLY protesting. Logic also dictates there were U.S. citizens involved also, ok DANNY.Logic 101.

Now we can down to the REAL issue, Why and how the cops pushed a peaceful crowd of men, women and children out of the park and WHY the hit women on the ground ,and WHY they hit and pushed JOURNALIST who posed No danger.

IS this the kind of country you want, and is THIS the power you want to hand over to the police, EH danny. Wake Up and when YOU find an issue to protest for, gun rights, more pork rinds at Nazcaw Races, hopefully the police dept. won't violating your civil rights by beating you senseless, or maybe that's not possiable anyway.


COMMENT #103 [Permalink]

... MS said on 5/9/2007 @ 10:10 pm PT...

To Agent 99:

Well, then I guess you and I have nothing in common and nothing more to say to each other. Clearly what you consider the real world and what I consider the real world are two very different things. What really strikes me about you though, is the many assumptions you make about me and all other participants of this issue including Liberals, Conservatives, and immigrants.

Let me make one thing clear here. I'm on the side of good, not because it makes me think well of myself but because I'm a good person. It's who I am and it's how I was brought up, and most of the people I've met in my life are good people, as strange as this may seem to some. And contrary to what you may perceive (and you've been proven to miss the point on more than one occasion) I don't think of people as "pets" --that's ludicrous--, I think of people as people.

I wasn't born in this country, but I've come to love it as my own and I'm grateful for everything it's given me, good and bad. You say I have a lifestyle of privilege, though I would hardly consider it that. The true privilege has come to me in the shape of long lasting friendships, where a friend helps me out today and I help a friend tomorrow. I have many friends who happen to be undocumented immigrants, and I have received a lot of help from them, even as they struggle with their own difficult situation. I'd sooner side with them over any corporation, for my friends have demonstrated loyalty while corporations only greed. I'd sooner side with them over the Government too, for my friends have shown compassion for their fellow man while the Government only contempt.

You see Agent 99, I could go on and on but I won't. Because frankly I don't think you'd understand. I'm done with you and Zorro, and stdcdh, and Gdawg, and the rest of them. In our real world we have issues to address and lives to live and people to meet and places to go and work to do.

In your real world... who knows?


COMMENT #104 [Permalink]

... duck said on 5/11/2007 @ 9:41 am PT...

Most of these may have been ILLEGALS. I do agree on how the LAPD handle this. The LAPD were not wrong. There are so many ILLEGALS come here each year and they have no right. My friend is going though things the right way. She had to wait to come here. she has paid money for the green card and is still waiting. These ILLEGALS can not do anything here. They steel from you and I (by taxes, healthcare, and so on) Most of these people sould not be heard. We save them from lossing there lifes when they get lost from running. They want everything from US like we owe them. ILLEGALS are not good to the USA and this needs to happen and I am not saying it's right, but it needs to happen. We the people of america have to many rights and are to into grtting rights for others. Becouse of this the USA goes loses more money, people that are on deaths row can't be put to death for 10 or 20 years, someone can go out and kill some else and get off or get life. All this and more all of us paid for. Think of and do some reseach of how ILLEGALS hurt the USA, how many and in jail, how many have good jobs and pay taxes. How many are the ones who bring guns and drugs here. I am all for them coming here, need to be done the right way. Until then what will we do about this. How will we stop them. How will the word get accoss. I lived in LA at one time. I would be willing to say 90% give or take were ILLEGALS and should have be taking to jail and sent back banning them from the USA.


COMMENT #105 [Permalink]

... Bansidh said on 5/13/2007 @ 12:36 am PT...

Weren't we the illegals when we stole this from Mexico? Or maybe when we stole it all from the Native Americans. These are people trying to get a better life for themselves, just like our ancestors did. If we don't want people to come here from Mexico or wherever,the answer might be to quit destroying the economy in their countries so that they can have a decent life where they were born. People are on the move all over the world because the neocons are destroying economies and global warming is hurting the climate.

Source : https://bradblog.com/?p=4502

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Pelosi Tells Rolling Stone She Thinks She Can Foresee Prosecution of Senior Bush Admin Officials

Source:The Brad Blog

Pelosi Tells Rolling Stone She Thinks She Can Foresee Prosecution of Senior Bush Admin Officials